Is that tarnish on the Alphacool radiator?

[DarthFK]

Hi,

I decided to move from the regular aluminium radiator AIOs in favor of the AIOs with copper rads and purchased two Alphacool Eiesbaer AIOs very recently. One was brand new and the other was very lightly used. Both were supposed to have black painted fins and look new. Both came with what initially looked like rust on one side of the fins, while the other side of the same fins was black.

Upon close examination, that did not look like copper at all. Scratching a fin resulted in copper being finally exposed/shining, from under a layer of some sort of tarnish. It was not green either. It rather looked like the paint deteriorated and became some sort of rust/tarnish. I found two reviews on Amazon suggesting buyers had similar problems with brand new products. While the fins should be copper, this did not seem like copper and the paint was present on one of the side of the fins.

I am wondering if anyone encountered this before and what is it? Does @Alphacool know about it? Is it cleanable and how such an additional "surface" affects the heat exchange? Should I talk to Alphacool about it or that's not relevant? Well, plenty more questions, but I would appreciate any insight and advice.

Please see attached pictures of the tarnish.

Thank you.

 

[Luckystricker]

Hi @DarthFK

That is normal. The cooling fins and cooling lines are made of copper, it looks like this. Only a light, fine layer of black lacquer is applied in order not to reduce the cooling capacity of the copper.
I hope I can answer your question.

Best regards

 

[DarthFK]

Dear @Luckystricker

That's tarnished copper, as in old, under the influence of elements (open air, light, humidity) etc. There is no patina. I scratched it to check. I can scratch half a fin, leave the old tarnish on half of the fin and shiny copper on the other half and upload a pic.

Also on the other side of the same fins, they are black, no tarnish. That seems a quality control problem to me, when one side of the same(!) fin is painted black and there is no problem with the paint, and the very same fin, on the other side, has tarnish... See the pictures of the same 140mm new radiator.

Perhaps for a used product that would be normal, but my second Eisbaer 140mm was brand new, still packaged. I recently also purchased an EKWB PE 240mm rad and the fins are also copper and are also lightly painted black, but there is no tarnish, not even a hint. I scratched the EK fins on purpose to verify. Same light paint, no tarnish. I can take two pictures, place it here for comparison.

A brand new lacquered/painted product coming with tarnish? I can understand that the lightly used 280mm Eisbaer could have developed tarnish over time, but my second 140mm AIO was purchased brand spanking new, was still wrapped two days ago.

Are you working for the Alphacool?

 

[Luckystricker]

Hi @DarthFK

I help out in the forum as best I can. I'll add a picture of my 2 radiators, one of which is now 2 years old and the other 1 year old. Both were new when I bought them. If copper comes into contact with high humidity or water, it tends to turn brown, if it comes into contact with alkalis or acids it can turn green. An example would be if a house has a gutter made of copper, but this can of course also be due to the copper mixture / alloy. Unfortunately, I cannot answer you now why one side of yours is varnished and the other is not. But from the pictures, they look normal, but it could also be due to my smartphone display. You can also send an email to info@alphacool.com, it's best to link the thread to it.
Sorry that my English is not the best.
Best regards

 

[DarthFK]

Hi @Luckystricker

Your English is perfectly fine. Thank you for your reply and I appreciate your help. And you replied to my post when no one else did!

I actually graduated a university on a tech degree, though focusing on semiconductors very long ago and then switched to social sciences soon after But, I didn't forget the basics of chemistry and about the browning/darkening or oxidation of copper (patina = green oxidation), as I also mentioned them in my first post and subsequent replies I also build my PCs for quite a long time, just didn't go the custom water cooling in the absence of time. But I read/watch a lot when time allows, sometimes to the detriment of sleep - now on watercooling, with DaZMod and JazTwoCents on my Youtube watch list Jayz has a video on "refurbishing" a radiator, but not with tarnish. I'll try to ask him about it too.

As you rightly pointed out, your radiators became like that over time. Mine came "new" (or lightly used) with this tarnish, both of them. And both have fins black on one side and "rusty" rather than brown coppery, on the other side of the same fins. I think I will try to at least discuss that with Alphacool, if they reply, as I need to take a decision on one of the AIOs - return or keep. Thank you for providing me with Alphacool contact details!

And if anyone else has an idea, experience etc, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Luckystricker]

Hi @DarthFK

Okay cool. I only know about the tarnishing of the copper under certain circumstances because I worked for a plumber 10 years ago. I also like to watch Jays two cents every now and then.? I try to help as best I can, and there is always something to learn.? I hope I could help you. Let me know who you have learned more about. Someone from Alphacool's support will certainly help you.

Best regards

 

[davido_labido]

Hi @DarthFK,

Dave here from Alphacool.

I am literally doing a video about our radiators at the moment, but here is a little sneak peak especially as it is rather relevant and shows how the fins are painted and that they are 100% copper.

For some context, we have had a customer say that they saw silver colouring on our radiator channels when they scratched one of them (the silver on the channels is solder so that the fins can be attached). To put his mind at ease and to show they are actually copper we put one in an acid bath and then sanded and wire brushed it until we could show the bare metals of everything. During this process I was removing the fins which clearly shows how the paint on them should be and also shows the same tarnish. You can also see patina caused by the reaction of the sodium hydroxide.

The paint on the fins should only cover the very ends, it is as little paint as we can possibly put on them whilst giving them a darker black effect.

We are very proud of our radiators and they are often touted as some of the best. All the parts that come into contact are in fact copper, except the brass thread inserts (copper is too soft to use for threads). We don't want to use copper, then cover it with a heavy coating of paint and in our tests our methods worked the best for our radiators.

ALL radiators that come from Alphacool will show the same tarnishing and this will also likely to get darker over a period of years . The fins actually tarnish during the manufacturing process as they are heated up to fix them to the solder on the channels. This tarnishes them, but also protects them. Over time, the tarnish will get darker and also some radiators will be darker than others by the time they get from the factory to the customer unless they are bought from the exact same batch, which admittedly isn't an easy thing to do.

To put your mind at ease and to answer your questions directly:

-We do know about it and although we admit that having perfectly black fins would be amazing, we also have become very well known based on our radiators.
-The fins are 100% copper.
-The tarnishing/oxidisation won't compromise the cooling of the radiator.
-Although your second one is brand new, it could have been in stock for a long time, this of course, won't affect the quality.
-It is not cleanable, attempts to clean it will likely make it worse in the long run.

Hopefully this answers all your questions and concerns, but if not, just @ me and I will try and answer more fully. Also, keep an eye out for the video over the next few days and you will be able to see the radiator broken down more if that interests you.

 

[DarthFK]

Hi Dave,

Thank you for an exhaustive answer, covering all my questions. I am glad that you are dedicated to your company and stand by your product. It's understandable that your reply would aim to represent your company, its achievements and, of course, cover any questions that might arise - I, and I am sure many others, appreciate that. I never doubted your radiators are cooper and its very much understandable why you use brass for g1/4 threads, but the tarnishing compared to Alphacool competitors was a concern at the moment of purchase. Your explanation of your manufacturing process clarifies a lot. It makes sense that a high temperature thermal process (soldering) would make the copper fins at least on some of the radiators darker, perhaps speeding the tarnish look, especially when in extended storage. My 140mm AIO, as you can probably notice from the last set of pictures, seems to have been manufactured in 2018. So, two years in storage might have contributed.

Well, your sneak peak and the reply made me put my mind at ease.

I do have one more kind request @davido_labido and would appreciate if you could help me out. My elder son wants to replace the Alphacool Eisbaer tubing on his Alpahacool 280mm AIO with a soft transparent one and run a purple coolant in it. He wants to keep it as an AIO for mobility reasons. I barely convinced him, at least I think I did, to maybe avoid colored coolants on the Eisbaer Solo pump. Also, the soft transparent tubing out of PVC has a lower life expectancy (plasticizer possibly leaking?) than the original Alphacool tubes (the ones with the quick connect), but I'm happy to help him, replace, test etc and keep an eye on it for him. I might go that route myself and replace the 140mm with a 240mm rad on my own Eisbaer. Can you help me out with a coolant question - what kind of coolant Alphacool uses in its Eisbaer AIO series and can I top it up or I would need to fully replace it (just in case, if I lose some during the replacement process) - Propylen based, Ethylen, proprietary Alphacool or just add more distilled water? Or could you give me an advise, please?!

Thanks again for taking time to reply to me before!

Also many thanks to @Luckystricker for his replies and help.

Oh, and, of course, I'm looking forward to the video!

 

[DarthFK]

And, perhaps, a suggestion, if I may @davido_labido - since my rad tarnishing looks (to me) a bit thicker than just copper discoloration/darkening, if you do a video, it would be nice to have a thermal comparison between a "tarnished" radiator and a brand new one Just an idea, which may put to ease, with empirical data, any concerns about the thermal qualities of Alphacool radiators over time.

Looking forward to your reply on my previous question re coolant.

Thanks again!

 

[davido_labido]

aaah sorry, I only just saw these tags!

I had a week vacation and didn't see the emails tagging me.

In the Eisbaer AiO it is CKC coolant, this may change to our new Tech Protect but we will let people know if this happens. We would always advise to either change the fluid completely or to top it up with CKC again.

As for the radiator video I will have to check if we actually have any older radiators kicking about to do a video showing the (lack of) difference, the only problem is that it is a rather slow video to do in terms of showing any changes but I have put it on my 'possible' list.

Oh, by the way, I did do the video showing the teardown of the radiator, it can be seen here:

It will give you a clue as to how thin the paint is on the fins

 

[DarthFK]

That's ok. I hope you had a good vacation. That's pretty difficult these days, but with the right amount of free time and air, a vacation may do quite well to any of us!

Thank you for a very useful info on the coolant. The closest Alphacool distributor to me is ModMyMods (they only have a 3 liter CKC canister now, but for a superb price, even with shipping and tax it comes to $12.45/L, even post-tax and shipment). However, it will take them time to ship and 3 liters is a bit too much, but, most importantly, I don't have enough space to store it. NY and it's small apartments... So, in the interests of time, I decided to go with a locally sold $18 Corsair XL5 1L premix (apparently Mayhems made), since the AIO should presumably take less than 0.5L and perhaps leave some for my second AIO experiment.

And - a good video! I left a like As in my previous comment, I was a bit surprised when you mentioned that someone doubted that Alphacool makes the channels of the radiator from copper. Well, anyway, this video leaves no doubt now. Oh, and, just to clarify, what I suggested was a video of the thermal comparison between a new radiator displaying "tarnish" and a new non-tarnished radiator performance. For example, two AIOs, one from the storage and another straight form the production line, might do just as well, I guess. Nothing too fancy. Again, this is just an idea, if Alphacool wants to consider it at all and is not a must.